On Fri, 02-8-08 10:17 am
I have a question:
If a Christian organization (school, parachurch, or even church) has a staff person in an authoritative position who lies, gossips, and slanders about other staff people, and the same staff person bullies the weak and vulnerable, and the primary shepherd looks the other way and does not want to hear about it - when all this happens, when does that organization stop being a Christian organization?
This is not just an academic question but one which we encounter and sometimes have to answer in the process of making a decision. We have all, I sadly suspect, run into such a situation and have puzzled over what to do. Rarely are we in a position to do much about it, lacking the authority to address either the bully or the permissive boss; usually we are only indirectly involved, although sometimes we are on the receiving end of the bullying, lies, etc.
Yet no church, school, ministry, or parachurch organization is without sin: even on its best day it is falling short because it consists of fallen, redeemed people. If God were to adopt a zero-tolerance policy, i.e., if he were to stop looking at Christ’s blood and instead evaluate us directly, there would be no Christian organizations. It is his grace and the purifying work of the Holy Spirit that makes any of our efforts acceptable.
Nevertheless, there is a limit, is there not? Christ warned the church of Ephesus,
Do the deeds you did at the first; if not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place – that is, if you do not repent.” - Rev 2.5b, (NET)
If we must make decisions in such situations - whether to attend, support, etc. - how do we know when the line has been crossed? Do we stay with an organization even though it is engaged in chronic, willful sin? Do we leave or pull our support until they repent?
What’s a brother to do?
February 10th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
I think it might stop being Christian if the community of believers ignore the Biblical mandate, and as a whole, approach the thing apathetically.
So personally I think the line is probably crossed if when we get to the point to bring it before the body of believers (after of course addressing the problem ourself, then with a few others who are Godly then with the leadership in tow) they all really aren’t motivated to do something about it.
Its hard though, so very hard.
February 10th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Thanks, Rey. I really don’t have an answer for this; I don’t think there’s a one-size-fits-all solution for it. But even in the specifics, it is difficult to know when to walk away and/or withdraw support. If a subordinate sins, and the people in authority -elder boards, deacons, pastors, board presidents, etc. - are deaf to the complaints, what do we do?
I think it is John Stott who stayed long - some say too long - in his own denomination because he believes he can do more good from the inside. He is Anglican, I believe, and if so it doesn’t appear he’s having much of a preservative effect. But I respect him and his wisdom, and what do I know about his specifics?
It is, as you say, so very hard.
February 12th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
The Church is imperfect as we are imperfect,but I think there is a difference in imperfection that is striving to see and reach perfection
in Christ and imperfection that doesn’t want to see,or know,or strive.
I don’t see how Christians can grow with a leadership that is frail.
Ephesians 5:8,10,11,13,14 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather exose them…everything exposed to the light becomes visible, for it is the light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:
Wake up, O sleeper,rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.(Tolkien, The Two Towers pg.49-50) ” I had forgotten that,’ said Eomer. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange.How shall a man judge what to do in such times? “As he ever has judged,” said Aragorn. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man’s part to discern them , as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house.”
February 14th, 2008 at 5:38 am
I don’t know when it stops being a Christian organization, but I think we can generally know when it’s time to get away from an organization. One in which a person in authority “lies, gossips, and slanders about other staff people, and the same staff person bullies the weak and vulnerable,” and those with oversight look the other way–well, that’s one I not only would have nothing to do with, but wouldn’t recommend anybody else did either.
I’ve been involved with Christian organizations that were so messed up I couldn’t in good conscience recommend others be a part of them.
Your question, by the way, reminds me of something I read a few years ago: Christian is a noun, not an adjective.
Peace.