On Thu, 08-25-05 9:51 pm
God Is the Gospel,
or, The Gospel According to Piper
Written by Dr Mike Filed under: Theology , These Days
I received the manuscript for this book several weeks ago through the Diet of Bookworms. My only compensation is that I am to receive a free copy of the book when it is made available. This is no compensation at all, however, since (a) the book is available free for online reading at Crossway’s site, and (b) it is not a book I would buy, recommend, give away, or use as a doorstop.
Recommendation: Save your money and read it online. Better yet, save your time and don’t read it at all.
I had intended to do an in-depth review of God Is the Gospel, pointing out the serious reservations I have about it while also attempting to salvage what good there is within its pages. The surprise release and availability of the book online, however, makes my review superfluous and so I will primarily share many of the notes I made in the margins of the manuscript during my two readings of the book. I trust you will get an idea of my areas of concern.
Let me begin by highlighting some of the disturbing statements in Piper’s writing. (All emphases are mine.)
What makes the gospel good news in the end is the enjoyment of the glory of God in Christ. The Holy Spirit provides the present experience of that enjoyment. Therefore the promise of the Spirit in the gospel is what makes it good news.” - p. 31
“The effect of this peace with God is eternal life. This too is what makes the gospel of Christ good news.” - p. 33
“That any of us has believed is owing to the mighty work of God’s grace - the grace made possible by the blood of Christ. And this blood-bought grace is essential to what makes the good news good.” - p. 36
“Now the point of this book must be pressed. The point is that the precious gospel events and gospel blessings that I have outlined in this chapter do not suffice to make the gospel good news.” - p. 37
This annoying doublespeak would be minor if it were not for the next step Piper takes in his reasoning. Through some creative hermeneutical gymnastics, he makes seeing the glory of God in Christ at the moment of effectual calling necessary for salvation.
If we believe all these things have happened to us, but do not embrace them for the sake of getting to God, they have not happened to us.” - p. 47
“If we do not see him and savor him as our greatest fortune, we have not obeyed or believed the gospel.” - p. 56
Piper’s addition of this requirement to the gospel seems to be almost completely based on his understanding of 2 Cor 4.3-6:
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus’ sake.
6 For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
Piper comments,
This is one of the most remarkable descriptions of the gospel in the whole Bible. There is nothing else quite like it. It defines the gospel as ‘the gospel of the glory of Christ.’ And it says that this gospel of Christ’s glory emits, as it were, a ‘light’ - ‘the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ.’” - p. 59
Herein lies Piper’s problem and misunderstanding: Paul is giving a description, not a definition, of the gospel. But Piper focuses on definition and thus concludes that the gospel is not the gospel if the glory of God in Christ is not seen; if the glory is not seen, there is no salvation.
What must be seen is not mere news and not mere knowledge. What must be seen is light . . . But the point here is this: the glory of God in Christ, revealed through the gospel, is a real, objective light that must be spiritually seen in order for there to be salvation, If it is not seen - spiritually tasted as glorious and precious - Satan still has his way, and there is no salvation.” - p. 64
Because Piper sees this as a definition, he comes to wrong conclusions about what constitutes the gospel of our salvation. For him, it is all about seeing the glory of God in Christ. He does not explain why Paul would “preach Christ crucified” (1 Cor 1.23) rather than “Christ glorified.” Nor does he address any of the multitude of passages that discuss the gospel being about the sacrifice of Christ and faith in Him. He does not seem to understand that “the glory of God in Christ’ is a reference to the crucifixion: God was glorified in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
In what seems to be a case of eisogesis, Piper reads his meaning into some of John Calvin’s writing and concludes that the Reformer is in agreement with him. Calvin’s quote is followed by Piper’s assessment; emphases are Piper’s:
Therefore illumined by the [the Spirit’s] power, we believe neither by our own [note this!] nor by anyone else’s judgment that Scripture is from God; but above human judgment we affirm with utter certainty (just as if we were gazing upon the majesty of God himself) that it has flowed to us from the very mouth of God by the ministry of men.” - Institutes, I, vii., 5, p. 80
This is almost baffling. He says that his conviction concerning the majesty of God in Scripture - that is, the glory of God in the gospel - rests not in any human judgment, not even his own.” - p. 80
My own copy of The Institutes is a different translation, but the substance is the same. Calvin’s quote is in a section having to do with the authority of Scripture, not the glory of God in the gospel, and has to do with the Holy Spirit illuminating and convincing people of the inspired and divine nature of the writings. Calvin does not refer to the gospel or the glory of God here, although Piper certainly causes it to appear as though that is what Calvin is saying.
Well, enough of that. As promised, here are some additional excerpts from Piper along with notes from my two readings of GITG:
-
“From the first sin in the Garden of Eden to the final judgment of the great white throne, human beings will continue to embrace the love of God as the gift of everything but himself.” - p. 11
> This is a straw man. Piper is stating that all Christians are guilty of this shallowness. I knew I was in trouble when I couldn’t make it past the first sentence of the book.
-
“The world needs nothing more than to see the worth of Christ in the work and words of his God-besotted people.” - p. 17
> “Besotted”?!? As in, “God-stupified” or “God-foolish”? Whenever an author uses archaic language to sound profound, I’m leery.
-
“Until the gospel events of Good Friday and Easter and the gospel promises of justification and eternal life lead you to behold and embrace God himself as your highest joy, you have not embraced the gospel of God.” - p. 38
> Not embraced or not fully embraced? Piper is adding another condition for salvation.
“The center of the gospel is the narration of the events of Christ’s death and resurrection. It is news! [ > Not good news? - MR] Then there is the explanation of what this death and resurrection have achieved in the forgiveness of sins and the hope of eternal life. And in all of this there is the aim and prayer that the glory of Christ would shine through, because this glory is what must be seen in order for faith to have a solid and saving ground.” - p. 89
> Again, Piper claims that there is no salvation apart from seeing the glory of Christ. Unfortunately, he never defines glory other than as an “objective” light.
“There is no gospel where the glory of God in Christ is not shown. And there is no salvation through the gospel where the glory of God in Christ is not seen.” - p. 97
> But what does this mean? if it means seeing the glory of God in and through the sacrifice and atonement, OK. But if it means seeing past the Cross to God’s transcendent glory, using the death, burial, and resurrection as merely stepping stones to another end, then NO.
“Therefore the gospel is ‘the gospel of the glory of the happy God.’” - p. 101
> Piper is now channeling Marilyn Hickey
[Referring to Php 2.6-11:] “When this gospel story is rightly proclaimed, that glory is displayed. If this glory is not shown and seen, the greatest good of the gospel is not seen, and there is no salvation.” - p. 171
> Is he giving indicative statements the force of imperatives? Paul is not commanding us to look for the glory but is stating a fact or result.
Well, I’ll stop. I’m bored and - if you’re still reading - I’m sure you are, too. I’ll close with this:
Had Piper made one of his minor points the major thrust of the book, the conclusion would have been timely, valuable, and biblical. That point was that believers need to learn to love God for who He is in and of Himself, totally apart from any gifts He might bestow, anything He might do, or even the salvation which is in Jesus Christ alone. God is worthy of adoration and our worship simply because of who He is. This would have been an immensely worthwhile book.
But, alas, John did not touch base with me first, and so we’re stuck with this. Too bad, eh?
Addendum: This is the only review of a Piper book I have ever done, although I have read a couple of his other books. I thought the others were good books and accomplished what they intended to achieve. I have not heard Piper speak, but am confident that he is as appealing and effective as some claim. I like and respect him. This review may not reflect that, but any author is susceptible to writing a less-than-good book from time to time. This is one of Piper’s, I think. I mean him no malice personally, but I do believe he is toying with the gospel.
August 26th, 2005 at 3:46 am
Thanks for the detailed analysis. As you know I’ve not read much of it yet…
From what I’ve seen I think the cross is still kept central - p14 states that doesn’t it? Maybe its not explicit enough - I can’t say yet - but the glory of Christ is what we see most at the Cross isn’t it.
Isn’t the “gospel of the happy God” quote from 1 Timothy 1? I don’t know who Marilyn Hickey is. Wuthout seeing the context, it looks like the translation Jim Elliot makes in his diary… usually translated “blessed God”.
My suspicion, from reading some of the book and its equivilants in sermon form is that maybe some of it requires more explanation, but I have to say I think overall he has a point.
Piper acknowledges John Owen’s The Glory of Christ, which I’ve just read - and there certainly seems to be a strong connection between the two books.
Hmmmm.
August 26th, 2005 at 7:15 am
My references are showing my age, I’m afraid: Hickey was pastor of “Happy Church” in Denver and a regular on Christian television a couple of decades ago. One of the health-and-wealth preachers. The reference was meant to be a joke.
August 26th, 2005 at 7:47 am
:) Let there be an end to all health-wealth stuff. The only time I’ve heard Piper in person was at a student event in London - in the pre-talk interview he had a go at the host for having a sofa with purple glittery cover for being too talk-showy… strip back to basics.
Keep the thoughts coming, I admit I’m all too likely to slip out of discerning reading when it comes to Piper, having read much of his prior work… Always helpful to have questions raised. I’ll see whether or not I agree with your concerns in due course.
Keep this stuff coming - the blog is superb.
August 26th, 2005 at 9:43 am
Piper is concerned with people having a *right reaction* to the Gospel - he wants to emphasize the *experiential* (what the Puritans called the “experimental”) aspects of faith. This is all well and good, but in his zeal I think he places *too* much emphasis on this facet, to the point where it becomes *necessary* for salvation.
Case in point - I heard Piper speak at a reformed conference in Maryland a number of years ago. In a panel discussion (I don’t remember the exact question that prompted it), he said in effect that if a person did not have a “positive” emotional response to God they were going to hell.
I understand some of Piper’s concerns. But when you generalize peoples’ responses to Christ and the Gospel like this, you can do great damage. God wires different folks in different ways, and to demand we all see and “experience” God’s glory in one exact emotional way is a recipe for spiritual disaster.
August 30th, 2005 at 2:04 pm
From the get-go let me say that I have no animosity toward Piper at all; I respect him as a pastor and a thinker. That said, I think Piper is wrong. A major problem with his thinking is seen in these passages quoted here, namely that the glory of God is who He is and not an attribute inherently His. John 17 says that eternal life (or Salvation) is knowing God, and if it is true that gods glory is who He is (rather than an attribute of God) than of course the seeing and understanding of the value of God is necessary for salvation. But if God is love, than we need to know Him as He is… and 1 John 1:9-10 points out the fact that God’s love is defined and manifested to us by the coming, the atonement sacrifice, and the resurrection of Christ. This is how we know what love is… or to put it another way, this is how we know the essence of who God is. Now, I have not yet read this book, so please take these comments with a grain of salt. Dr. Mike, thank you for another wonderful post. God bless all!
September 1st, 2005 at 7:14 am
Thanks for posting this, and posting in the comments on Dave’s blog which alerted me to this. I get larger and more frequent doses of Piper’s writings and teachings than most, and find most of it to be very good, and so it’s good to be reminded to be put on guard.
I don’t see how the death of a righteous man and eternal God in Jesus as an end in itself can be good news to us. Nor the resurrection nor the ascension. It is primarily good news to sinners like us because of its effect on our eternal destiny. It fulfills many roles (look at Piper’s 50 Reasons Why Jesus Came to Die to see the extent to which he affirms it) but the main reason that it’s good news to sinners is that it allows us to spend eternity in God’s love rather than his wrath.
We cannot come to know and believe in Christ unless our hearts have been worked in by the Spirit, and the result of that is always to love God and delight in Him.
So I suspect that these Piper quotes are more unforunate-wordings than unfortunate-theology. But I’ll have to see once I’ve read the thing.
September 25th, 2005 at 5:10 pm
I think the best way to understand Piper’s thinking on the subject of ‘emotional response’ is to read Edwards’ Religious Affections. Let’s remember that Edwards has influenced his thinking more than any other writer outside the Bible.
Also, joking about Piper channelling a health-wealth preacher strikes me as very distasteful. Especially about someone who is so dedicated and disciplined with wealth, and whose heart breaks for the unreached and impoverished peoples of the world. Let’s play fair.
September 26th, 2005 at 8:52 am
I have sat under Piper’s tutelage via a number of his books and what few opportunities I’ve had to hear him speak publicly. I’ve also sat under the tutelage of a former Wheaton professor of New Testament exegesis who openly professes to have been heavily influenced by Piper. I’ve also had the privilege of studying alongside and befriending a small handful of young men who went through Piper’s Bethlehem Institute.
In my humble opinion, based on observations I’ve made of Piper and the professor and those students who are infatuated with both, Piper and his followers have an unhealty addiction to two things:
a) Overstatement in doctrine and praxis to facilitate a (somewhat respectable) need to feel radically committed to Christ
b) Innovation in exegesis to facilitate a.
I know, I know, Piper’s connection to Edwards. And yes, Piper himself has expressed reservations about said professor’s penchant for innovation. But the impulse is still there, I submit, for any fair observer to see. Piper and professor both claim Daniel Fuller had a big impact on them. Perhaps that is the genesis of it all. But for all Piper’s good, and I genuinely think he has done good, his need–and the need I see him engendering in his followers–for overstatement and innovation seems to me to be unhealthy and potentially damaging in the final analysis.
September 26th, 2005 at 6:26 pm
Do you mean he will do more damage than good in the final analysis?
September 26th, 2005 at 8:08 pm
Scott:
I’m not sure I understand your question. Implied in it is the assumption that if one does more good than harm, then the ministry is valid and should be allowed to stand. Every ministry will of course do harm, but if it is intentional or the result of uncorrected error, then that is another matter.
What, exactly, are you suggesting with the question?
September 27th, 2005 at 8:30 am
Scott,
I confess, I find the question a bit of a non-sequitor. I wasn’t implying any kind of a more than/less than comparison. I mean that I suspect that in the final analysis, Piper’s penchant for overstatement and innovation has genuine potential to lead some followers of Christ into harmful patterns of thinking. Piper is somewhat restrained by a respectable grasp on historic (at least Edwardsian) orthodoxy. I suspect there will be, and I believe I have witnessed, others who are emboldened by his zeal and his tedency toward hyperbole and innovation in exegesis but who are not adequately formed theologically to maintain orthodoxy or shepherd people at various stages in their walk with Christ wisely.
September 27th, 2005 at 8:51 am
Great review.
September 27th, 2005 at 10:51 am
I heard someone (fairly well known) comment that they found Piper’s expositions more helpful than his thematic (Christian Hedonism) work… I think I agree…. Sometimes perhaps the case is overstated - I’m not (yet)
won over with his argument for terrible things being promised if we don’t enjoy God (from Deuteronomy)
But… when I look at his ministry - the way he drives people into the text, into mission and mercy and away from health/wealth stuff it seems hard to conclude that this is not a ministry that is true at the core.
We all have excesses at times and places, and even all through life - but JP does seems to be focussed on the right things in the end, even if you don’t think he necessarily goes about it quite right.
Sure there are those who read Piper and aren’t quite so careful in places as he is - but that is hardly his fault - who can read The Supremacy of God in Preaching and think it’ll be ok to not be really really serious about handling the Bible?
What honestly worries me more is joyless high-view of God orthoxody that does not produce evangelism and mercy… how can that be true Biblical Christianity? How can we be gripped by the reality of the gospel and not have true “religious affections”?
September 27th, 2005 at 2:38 pm
Dave,
If Piper’s treatment of Romans 9-11 (The Justification of God)is an example of an exposition that seems more helpful than his thematic treatments, then I would agree. A great work.
I’ve emitted my comments here because after reading Piper for years, watching a professor who did similar things under his influence, and seeing Piperite students in action, I began to suspect that the apparent need for new and fresh radicality at all times could cause Piper himself at any moment to spin out of control. From what little I’ve read of Is God the Gospel so far, I’ve begun to suspect it is an example of that very thing. I confess I need to read more before I make that final judgment though. I don’t mean to judge it or him prematurely, but this review and other comments I’ve read fall right in line with the tendencies I see in Piperite Christianity.
September 27th, 2005 at 4:36 pm
The Justification of God is superb! (Although to be honest until I actually learn some greek and hebrew its hard to see whether Piper or, say, Roger Forster in God’s Strategy in Human History, is really right)….
God gives us teachers to help us. My hope is that Piper has aided my spiritual life and my ministry - that’s certainly my testimony. The danger is to mimic effects without depths, to have to find the Piper-angle rather than the Biblical one (even if those two things are the same thing in many cases)…
I’ll happily call myself a christian hedonist, and I’ve found Piper and Sam Storms and others very helpful along the way…. but let that never keep me from examining God’s word myself - which my instinct is - is exactly where those teachers want me to be… buried deep in God’s word for myself.
September 27th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
My question wasn’t intended to be suggestive, I was just asking for clarification.
I’ve definitely seen some of what CSG is talking about, in the way people approach scripture when they feel like they are discovering something really important. Would it be accurate to say that a large part of the error arising is due to other people misinterpreting and misapplying Piper’s teaching? In his passion to wake people from their slumber, is Piper not being careful enough about the adverse effects it will have on less biblically-anchored believers?
October 4th, 2005 at 5:34 pm
. . .And we could just read our Bibles and ask ourselves, what the Apostle Paul asks us to do as well, “Examine yourselves to see if you are in the faith . . .”, Or Peter, encouraging us to make sure of our election.
Read the Bible. Piper isn’t pulling this out of the air or twisting Scripture. The Scriptures are quite provocative on their own account.
Why would anyone be offended to be asked if they are loving Jesus more, and why would anyone be bothered to think that a brother in the Lord would try to encourage the rest of his brothers and sisters to love Jesus more? He certainly isn’t demanding circumcision nor is he demanding anything beyond Jesus’ own expectation that we love God with our entire being.
The corrective is needed. And the corrective is rejected. The issue is still the affections of our hearts, loving God in Christ more than we love anything else. Wherever your treasure is . . . Come to the end of the question, “Do you want heaven more than you want Jesus?” and the answer is yes/no. Oh who will save me from this? Thanks be to God (who is the gospel).
How does God being the Gospel obscure the gospel? It does not. It cannot.
Grace and Peace,
Kelty
Kelty -
I have no idea what you’re reacting to or talking about, whether it is my review or something said in the comments.
Either way, however, your exhortation to “just read our Bibles” is missing the point: it is by reading my Bible that I have problems with Piper’s addition to the gospel. Certainly every believer needs to love God more but to add to the gospel as he has is simply wrong - because the Bible says so. Loving God is of course the ultimate goal of sanctification - who would argue with that? - but Piper is making it a requirement for salvation.
Have you read the book?
In this case, Piper is wrong: you can choose to follow Piper or the Bible. It’s up to you.
DrMR
November 18th, 2005 at 2:57 pm
Mike, excellent review. Concise and non-prejudicial. Much needed.
There are other reviews of Dr. Piper’s stuff on Christian Hedonism (especially at thefaithfulword.org ) that are a bit heavy-handed, but the questions they raise are fair and valid enough.
What is God MOST concerned about? Is it our emotional response to the good news, or our obedient / repentant response to it?
For example, Psalm 37:3-6 names faith (trust) and obedience (do good) before it names “delight”, yet Piper exagerates the word “delight” as if it was used all by itself in that passage. God always emphasizes our obedience and faith, and less often our emotional response.
Dueteronomy 28 is overwhelmingly about how the Jews will be cursed if they disregard and disobey the newly delivered Law of Moses. Yet Piper ignores the dozen or so statements about obedience in the chapter and finds an obscure phrase about being “happy” in verse 47 and proclaims that “terrible things will happen to us if we are not happy.” That is very creative eisegesis, yet I do not think any of us would in all clear conscience make the same claim after studying that passage. Happiness is not the emphasis, obedience is.
Mike, keep up the discerning reading.
January 5th, 2006 at 4:17 pm
In the past couple days i have been searching for “Christian Hedonism” on google and i have found many debates against Piper’s teachings. I decided to give a quick response on this site. While i agree with Piper’s critics that he does have the tendancy to over-emphasize/ exaggerate stuff because of zeal, i still find deep and solid truth behind a lot of what he has to say. His teachings are a great antedote to hypocracy in the Church. I think at bottom line, his main goal is to bring “holy affections” back into the faith of Christianity (which is Biblical) because for far too long we have allowed it to become a “will power religion” where no “affections” are nessecary. The highest call of the Bible is to love God, and Piper is basically saying that love involves more than sheer will-power…it involves some sort of delight in God. (Yes there is commitment and resolve- Piper doesn not replace those things with delight, he adds to them) I think this is correct and very good teaching.1 cor13:3 says that you can “give all you have to the poor” and “throw your body to the flames” yet “have not love”. Those are things that most would consider “loving acts”, but Piper (and Paul here) is saying that love involves more than an action…it involves affection. And to be sure that this is not “emotionalism” Piper agrees with and quotes Edwards as saying “i aim to raise the affections of my listeners as high as i possible can PROVIDED that 1) they are only affected by the TRUTH and 2) they are affected in proportion to the value of the truth being proclaimed” (loose quote from memory).
Really i think when you boil it all down its a matter of “do you serve God because your supposed to or because you WANT to?” & since God knows our hearts and desires would God more pleased (-??glorified??-) by one who serves out of obligation or one who serves out of delight IN GOD. (”God loves a CHEERFUL giver”).
January 13th, 2006 at 12:08 pm
Whatever else may be wrong with the modern church, it sure does not lack “holy affections.” Look at the emotions of joy and sheer delight you find in any seeker service, or in any worship and praise song. You can’t hardly find a sober or contemplative moment. So if hedonism is trying to correct the level of emotion the church has, it is shoving the pendulum the wrong direction–that ship has sailed.
What is missing is deep study of God’s Word and obedience to it.
As for Piper’s teaching, anything that is an exaggeration of biblical teaching is simply a charicature of it…it is a distortion. We should not be professional distorters of God’s Word, but searching for ever more accurate understanding of it.
Why do you or I serve God? Well, the Bible says (there’s that Word-accuracy thing again) we serve because we love Him, and we love Him because He first loved us.
Christian Hedonism says “pursue your pleasure in God” as your highest goal. In other words, “get, get, get.” The Bible more properly teaches, “give love to God as your greatest commandment.” Can you really say that getting is better than giving?
March 2nd, 2006 at 2:01 pm
i don’t think piper would agree with this statment:
Christian Hedonism says “pursue your pleasure in God” as your highest goal. In other words, “get, get, get.”
Rather that God is your highest goal. 2 Cor 5 talks extensively about what God did through Christ, reconciliation unto Himself. So it starts there. Piper then really pushes the idea that if you know God, then you must know pleasure because if anything is pleasurable it is God’s presence.
I’ve read alot of these comments and many of the ones criticizing JP seem to take the assumption that Piper’s goal is emotional ecstasy. I can actually see how this could be taken from his books/articles/sermons. But could that be the misreading of someone who is looking to find faults? possibly. Piper says things like “the pursuit of joy is essential” and “God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him.” Such statemtents don’t make joy or satsifaction the focus, unless you read that into it. They just make the point that joy and satisfaction are what would flow from communion with a perfect and glorious God. How could they not? To say that knowing God isn’t a joyful and satisfying thing implies that He is unable to be the joy and satisfaction of the believer. This would mean He’s deficeint and therefore not God.
I just don’t understand how we could not want to share with non-believers (and believers as well) that there is joy in Christ.
Overall I’ve read the review, the comments, etc and find that people will find logical holes and some certain few sentences and such to try and shoot down the overall idea that God is the only place where true joy and satisfaction can be found. This is Piper’s main push is it not? Isn’t the thesis of the book that God is the Gospel, so therefore satisfaction and joy are what will flow from God who we come to know through the Gospel. I just don’t really see how that is wrong.
March 17th, 2006 at 11:13 pm
Chris said, “I don’t think Piper would agree with this statment: ‘Christian Hedonism says pursue your pleasure in God’ as your highest goal. In other words, ‘get, get, get.’ ”
Chris, perhaps you have not read Piper’s book, The Dangerous Duty of Delight. Piper is the very one who said, “The radical implication is that pursuing pleasure in God is our highest calling.” (page 21) and “the aim of life” (page 19).
Chris said, “I’ve read alot of these comments and many of the ones criticizing JP seem to take the assumption that Piper’s goal is emotional ecstasy. I can actually see how this could be taken from his books/articles/sermons. But could that be the misreading of someone who is looking to find faults?”
It has been my understanding from Scripture that throwing around accusations about the motives of those who review and critique books is speculatory and improper, because no one can know the motives of other men. All such speculations do is harm their reputation and integrity, and all without evidence. From what evidence do you offer the theory that men like Mike are “only looking to find faults” for sport?
Chris, you did say you do not like that Piper’s critics assume “that Piper’s goal is emotional ecstasy.” It is not Piper’s critics who say this, it is Piper’s writings which say this. After all, Piper wrote: “I came to see that it is unbiblical and arrogant to try to worship God for any other reason than the pleasure to be had in him.” (Piper said this on page 16 of Desiring God).
Chris said, “To say that knowing God isn’t a joyful and satisfying thing implies that He is unable to be the joy and satisfaction of the believer.” Mike, and none of the other posters I read, have said this at all. What the posters have said is that pursuing pleasure is not the goal of life nor is it the goal of worship, even though that is what Piper writes.
“Christian Hedonism does not put us above God when it makes the joy of worship its goal.” (Piper said this on page 85 of Desiring God)
The criticism most of the posters have against christian hedonism is that it makes pleasure, and the pursuit of pleasure, this great big focus of life even though the Bible does not.
I am sorry you are so offended on behalf of Piper by these critiques. Still, I think the critiques are necessary to balance out the improper overstatements about the importance of pleasure that Piper makes.
March 21st, 2006 at 4:48 am
>>>“The radical implication is that pursuing pleasure in God is our highest calling.” (page 21) and “the aim of life” (page 19).
Why is this offensive? All this amounts to is a restatement of this statement: Man’s chief end is to glorify God and enjoy him forever. Does that sound at all familiar?
>>>“I came to see that it is unbiblical and arrogant to try to worship God for any other reason than the pleasure to be had in him.”
And how exactly does Piper define pleasure in God? What is Piper’s theology of God? One can only come to the conclusions you’re reaching in your criticism if you lop off the “in him” portion of what Piper said. You consistently do this when you stop at “pleasure” or “enjoy,” and forget “in Him.” You remind me of anti-Calvinists who rant against reprobation and consistently forget to tell their readers that we affirm that God reprobates men who are willing and condemned sinners. The end of worship is to glorify God and enjoy Him in all that we do. God desires that we enjoy Him. To take pleasure in God is, by definition, worship and obedience, for it conforms to His desire and purpose for our lives. One cannot experience such pleasure without wholly pursuing God Himself and making Him the center of one’s pursuits. Where does Piper ever affirm will worship? On the contrary, he affirms, God may not be worshipped according to the imagination and devices of men.
I find your statements about overstatements to be nothing more than classic examples of mirror-reading, where you impute your own assumptions and standards to your opponent, and then accuses him of hypocrisy for failing to measure up.
March 21st, 2006 at 8:22 am
Did someone forget to take their medication this morning?
I hope that you, Gene, have the same passion, fury, zeal, and foaming-at-the-mouth fervor for Jesus Christ that you have for John Piper. Do you think Piper would be pleased at such vitriolic language and ranting against a disagreeing brother in Christ? And if you say that your opponents are not Christians, well . . .
April 13th, 2006 at 11:44 am
Quoting Gene’s post above: “ ‘The radical implication is that pursuing pleasure in God is our highest calling (page 21) and ‘the aim of life’ (page 19).’ Why is this offensive? All this amounts to is a restatement of this statement: Man’s chief end is to glorify God and enjoy him forever. Does that sound at all familiar?”
Those quotes from Piper are not “offensive” as you say, but merely incorrect. Getting pleasure from God, as but one attribute of our pursuit of God and one aspect of giving our love to God, is not our highest calling or our aim of life, at least not according to the Bible. Since pleasure is but one attribute of pursuing God and loving God, then “pursing God” and “loving God” must be higher callings and greater aims of life than the smaller part that pleasure occupies.
Regarding your charge that my quotes “lop off the ‘in him’ portion of what Piper said. You consistently do this when you stop at ‘pleasure’ or ‘enjoy,’ and forget ‘in Him.’ “ This confuses me since the actual quote from Piper to which you are referring does include “in him”: “I came to see that it is unbiblical and arrogant to try to worship God for any other reason than the pleasure to be had in him.” So to the charge that I “lopped of the ‘in him’” I plead not guilty.
As to your comparison of me to anti-Calvinists, that type of insulting and character aspersion is counter productive to discussing theology. Insults are merely a way of harming an opponent in the eyes of others simply to diminish the impact of his comments. It is not a valid approach to either a true rebuke or to exchanging ideas.
Gene posted: “One cannot experience such pleasure without wholly pursuing God Himself and making Him the center of one’s pursuits.” With that statement, I agree. Pleasure comes as a result of pursuing God above all, not as a result of pursuing pleasure itself (in God) above all.
Gene posted: “I find your statements about overstatements to be nothing more than classic examples of mirror-reading, where you impute your own assumptions and standards to your opponent, and then accuses him of hypocrisy for failing to measure up.” Really? Remember, it is called Christian Hedonism, not Christians Loving God. Yes, all the focus on acquiring one’s own pleasure in God as if it were the key to Christianity and the key to salvation is overstated in Piper’s theology. I find that there is a much stronger emphasis in the Bible on pursuing being loving to God and to others than on getting my pleasure from God. At least, that is the way it reads to me.
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And He said to him, ” ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
Mike, my apology for the length of this post.